Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/09/1994 10:10 AM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 9, 1994
10:10 a.m.
TAPE HFC 94-116, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-117, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-117, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-118, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-118, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-119, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-119, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94-120, Side 1, #000 - 204.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee to order
at 10:10 a.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Martin
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Navarre (via
Vice-Chair Hanley teleconference from Anchorage)
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Grussendorf Representative Therriault (via
teleconference from Anchorage)
Representatives Hoffman and Foster were not present for the
meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Jeanette James; Representative Brian Porter;
Representative Fran Ulmer; Representative Jim Nordlund; Jeff
Feldman, Attorney, Alaska Trial Lawyers; Cindy Smith,
Director, Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual
Assault; Jayne Andreen, Council on Domestic Violence and
Sexual Assault; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant Attorney
General, Department of Law; John George, Alaska Outdoor
Council; Mike Leismeir, Attorney; Sherrie Goll, Alaska
Women's Lobby; Jerry Luckhaupt, Legislative Legal Counsel,
Legislative Affairs Agency; C.E. Swackhammer, Deputy
Commissioner, Department of Public Safety; Mike Ford,
Legislative Legal Counsel, Legislative Affairs Agency; Chris
Christensen, Staff Counsel, Alaska Court System.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
HB 351 "An Act relating to the issuance of permits for
the carrying of a concealed weapon."
HB 351 was HELD in Committee for further
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discussion.
HB 292 "An Act relating to civil actions; amending Alaska
Rules of Civil Procedure 49 and 68; and providing
for an effective date."
HB 292 was HELD in Committee for further
discussion.
HOUSE BILL NO. 351
"An Act relating to the issuance of permits for the
carrying of a concealed weapon."
CINDY SMITH, DIRECTOR, ALASKA NETWORK ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
AND SEXUAL ASSAULT testified in opposition to HB 351. She
pointed out that 37 percent of homicides in Alaska occur
from hand guns. She noted that only 10 to 15 percent of
homicides in Alaska are at the hands of strangers. The
majority of the offenders have no prior record. She
emphasized that the issue is not whether a gun can be
carried, but if a gun can be hidden. She maintained that
concealed weapon legislation will not reduce the incidence
of violence.
Ms. Smith requested that shelters and safe homes be added to
the list of places where concealed guns can be carried. She
asked that permits not be granted if a restraining order is
in place. She suggested that permits be rejected for
several years after a restraining order has been in place.
JAYNE ANDREEN, COUNCIL ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE spoke in
opposition to HB 351. She maintained that the legislation
will increase risk to victims of domestic violence and
sexual assault. She noted that irrational behavior is
increased in cases of domestic violence. She stressed that
staff of domestic shelters have been the target of threats.
She questioned the need for concealed weapons.
DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF ASSISTANT ATTORNEY, DEPARTMENT OF LAW
testified in opposition to HB 351. He provided members with
a paper titled, "To conceal or not to conceal, that it is
the question" (copy on file). He emphasized that it is
legal to carry concealed weapons, in the home and when
engaged in lawful outdoor activity. He suggested that is
unnecessary to carry concealed weapons in banks, doctor
offices, grocery stores and other downtown areas.
Mr. Guaneli emphasized that crimes in the home have not been
reduced as the result of the ability to have concealed
weapons in the home. He pointed out that those that work
with victims of crime are opposed to the bill. He suggested
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that the rate of accidents will increase if more guns are on
the street. He recommended that mandatory insurance be
required of those that carry concealed weapons.
Mr. Guaneli recommended that standards for intoxication be
adopted in regards to the possession of weapons. He
asserted that the bill allows to many individuals with
criminal records to obtain hand gun permits. He maintained
that the minimum age of 21 years will create problems. He
noted no testimony was taken in the House Judiciary
Committee. He asserted that the legislation needs further
work. He discussed the competence requirement.
Representative Grussendorf expressed concern with the need
for qualifications for permits. Mr. Guaneli recommended
that a lengthy juvenile record and a range of crimes should
disqualify a permittee.
JOHN GEORGE, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL spoke in support of HB
351. He maintained that a permitted concealed weapon would
be the safest handgun in the state of Alaska, due to
requirements of the legislation. He noted that the
legislation requires training in the use and law regarding
handguns.
SHERRIE GOLL, ALASKA WOMEN'S CONFERENCE testified in
opposition to HB 351. She maintained that the legislation
will not make the state safer for women. She emphasized the
potential influence of concealed weapons for victims of
stalking. She stressed that the state of Alaska's crime
rate is low. She noted that laws regarding the carrying of
weapons are liberal in the state of Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES noted that the Subcommittee
had incorporated several amendments into a proposed
committee substitute. She indicated that the amendments
could be brought before the Committee individually.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to ADOPT CSHB 351 (JUD) as the bill
before the Committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Representative James referred to the legislation as a "gun
safety" bill. She maintained that the legislation will
protect the rights and responsibility of individuals to
protect themselves. She stated that police have the
responsibility to protect the public safety. She asserted
that police do not have the responsibility to protect the
individual. She discussed the use of deadly force. She
pointed out that the bill was heard in the House State
Affairs Committee.
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(Tape Change, HFC 94-117, Side 1)
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 1 (copy
on file). She explained that amendment 1 would delete "and
locked" gun case. She stated that many gun cases cannot be
locked. In addition, amendment 1 would add language to
clarify that a concealed weapon could not be carried in "an
office of the state, federal government, or of a political
subdivision of the state that is not located in a building".
Amendment 1 would also require that an "illegible" permit be
reported.
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 1.
Representative Grussendorf OBJECTED. A roll call vote was
taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, MacLean,
Larson
OPPOSED: Brown, Grussendorf
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-2).
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 2. She
explained that amendment 2 would provide that a person not
suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe
handling of a handgun; requires that permits be granted
after 45 days of receipt of the application; provides for an
appeal if the permit is denied; and clarifies that the make,
model or serial number is not required.
Representative Brown MOVED to DIVIDE the question to allow
the portion contained on page 3, lines 10 and 11 to stand
alone. Representative Martin OBJECTED. A roll call vote
was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Hanley, Parnell, MacLean,
Larson
OPPOSED: Therriault, Martin
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-2).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2A contained
on page 3, lines 10 and 11. Co-Chair MacLean OBJECTED. A
roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Therriault, Brown, Hanley, Martin, Parnell
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OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Larson, MacLean
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2B.
Representative Brown MOVED to AMEND the amendment to add "or
mental" after "physical". Discussion pursued in regards to
the ability to judge if a mental infirmity can be determined
by the Department of Public Safety. Representative James
pointed out that page 4, line 5 prevents those suffering
from mental illness as defined in AS 47.39.015 from being
permitted. She asserted that the legislation covers mental
infirmities.
Representative Martin OBJECTED to the amendment to amendment
2A. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, MacLean
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
Representative Hanley expressed concern that a background
check could take longer than the 45 days provided for in
amendment 2B. Representative James stated that background
checks can be completed in five days. Representative James
emphasized that the intent of the amendment is to prevent
law enforcement from delaying applications.
Representative Hanley MOVED to AMEND amendment 2B (copy on
file). He explained that the amendment to amendment 2B
would provide that the "department shall request background
information under this subsection within five days of the
receipt of an application." There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED to DIVIDE AMENDMENT 2B. She
expressed concern with the portion requiring that the make,
model or serial number is not required. Representative
Parnell OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Larson
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
MacLean
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
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The MOTION FAILED (2-6).
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2B.
Representative Brown OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken
on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
OPPOSED: Brown, MacLean
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-2).
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 3. She
explained that amendment 3 would prevent additions to the
list of items that can be included on the list of
requirements for the granting of a permit. The amendment
also would clarify requirements of the permit and reiterated
that the guns would not be registered by the Department.
Representative Parnell questioned how a history of mental
illness would be ascertained in the records check.
Discussion pursued in regards to mental health background
checks. Representative Brown maintained that amendment 3 is
not consistent with other provisions of the bill.
Representative James noted that page 5, line 5 states that
an applicant qualifies under AS 18.65.705, Qualifications
for a Permit.
C.E. SWACKHAMMER, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
SAFETY expressed concern that the amendment would preclude
enforcement officers from ascertaining if an applicant has a
record of misdemeanor offenses. He noted that the FBI does
not enter misdemeanor offenses in their data base.
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 3. A roll
call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Martin
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Brown, Hanley, Parnell, Therriault,
MacLean, Larson
Representatives Foster, Hoffman and Navarre were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-7).
(Tape Change, HFC 94-117, Side 2)
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 4. She
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explained that amendment 4 addresses the handgun course for
the demonstration of competence. Amendment 4 states that
the "department shall approve any handgun course that tests"
the applicants. Amendment 4 also adds new paragraphs to
read: "(2) familiarity with the basic concepts of the safe
and responsible use of handguns; (3)knowledge of self-
defense principles; and".
Mr. Swackhammer noted that the qualifications would not meet
law enforcement qualifications. Representative James
emphasized that there is no intent to meet the same standard
of qualifications as law enforcement officers.
Mr. Swackhammer questioned the amendments use of "shall
approve any handgun course." He stressed that the amendment
would interfere with the department's use of discretion.
Representative Hanley maintained that the Department needs
to be allowed discretion.
Representative Parnell MOVED to DIVIDE the Question,
Amendment 4A would state: "The department shall approve any
handgun course that tests" and deletes "and" on page 6, line
3. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Parnell MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 4B. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Amendment 4A was not moved.
HB 351 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
HOUSE BILL NO. 292
"An Act relating to civil actions; amending Alaska
Rules of Civil Procedure 49 and 68; and providing for
an effective date."
SHERRIE GOLL, ALASKA WOMEN'S LOBBY spoke in opposition to HB
292. She maintained that the legislation will limit the
rights of women and children to be justly compensated when
they are the victims of someone else's reckless and careless
conduct. She pointed out that there is a $10.0 thousand
dollars cap on non-economic damages for a single person's
death as the result of negligence. She gave examples of
claims that would be limited or barred by the legislation.
Ms. Goll noted that there is no mandate to lower insurance
premiums. She discussed the cap on non-economic damages.
She maintained that non-economic damages can be articulated.
She asserted that caps adversely affect those that are
catastrophically injured. She questioned the cap placed on
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catastrophically injured individuals and the definitions of
"catastrophic." She noted that the Alaska Women's Lobby and
Kidpac have problems with several portions of the bill. She
urged that the bill not be moved.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER explained that the $10.0
thousand dollars cap on non-economic damages is for non-
dependents. He clarified that there are three categories of
damages, economic, non-economic and punitive. He briefly
defined the categories. He noted that dependents can
recover economic damages. He observed that amendments have
been adopted to alleviate concerns. He noted that the
legislation does not contain caps for economic damages. He
further discussed caps contained in the bill.
Representative Parnell MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 1 on behalf
of Representative Porter (copy on file). Representative
Porter explained that amendment 1 would insert "prolonged
exposure to hazardous waste" as an exception to the statute
of repose. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Porter provided members with AMENDMENT 2
(copy on file). He explained that the amendment would place
in statute civil rule 11. The amendment is aimed at
reducing the motivation of filing specious lawsuits. The
amendment would require sanctions from the court. The court
"shall" implement sanctions of up to $10.0 thousand dollars
if it rules that a case without merit.
Representative Parnell MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2.
CHRIS CHRISTENSEN, GENERAL COUNSEL, ALASKA COURT SYSTEM
testified that the amendment would mandate the court to
place sanctions. He recommended that the court retain
discretion. He suggested that the amendment may increase
the Alaska Court System's fiscal note.
MIKE FORD, LEGAL COUNSEL, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY
stressed that the amendment could be interpreted to cover
specious motions or pleading. He suggested that the
amendment could act as a disincentive for specious actions.
Representative Brown OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken
on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Navarre, Hanley, Martin, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Brown
Representatives Foster and Hoffman were absent from the
vote.
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The MOTION PASSED (8-1).
Mr. Ford gave a brief overview of legislative history of
tort reform.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-118, Side 1)
Mr. Ford briefly reviewed the legislation by section.
Representative Porter clarified that an injury accrues at
the time that the injury is discovered or reasonably should
have been discovered as opposed to the time the injury
occurred.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 3 (copy
on file). She explained that amendment 3 would make the
purpose section consistent with the findings. The amendment
would insert "except in a few limited circumstances" to
acknowledge that some injuries will not be compensated.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 3.
JEFF FELDMAN, ATTORNEY, ALASKA TRIAL LAWYERS asserted that
false statements are made in both the findings and purpose
sections of the legislation. He maintained that the
legislation would exclude a great number of claims beyond a
limited set of circumstances.
MIKE LEISMEIR, ATTORNEY disagreed with Mr. Feldman. He
alleged that circumstances which are specifically defined
will be effected.
Representative Navarre stressed that the legislation will
bar all kinds of claims. He stated that the legislation
reduces the cost of litigation by barring claims. He
estimated that the state would pick up the cost of injured
parties.
Representative Martin OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken
on the MOTION to adopt amendment 3.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Navarre, Hanley, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Martin
Representatives Foster and Hoffman were absent from the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (8-1).
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 4 (copy
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on file). She explained that amendment 4 would remove the
statute of repose proposal from the legislation. She
emphasized that the Attorney General suggested that the
proposal may be unconstitutional.
Mr. Feldman agreed that the statute of repose provision
would be held unconstitutional by the court. He explained
that the statute of repose would divide citizens into
separate classes.
He maintained that the provision will create more
litigation.
Mr. Leismeir stressed that the issue is whether the
legislature has the authority to adopt a statute of repose.
He disagreed that the Supreme Court would reject any statute
of repose. He held that the proposal applies equally to all
parties.
Representative Martin discussed the section of severability.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND recommended that the Committee
consider the Attorney General's opinion. He quoted the
opinion as stating: "We believe that the Alaska Supreme
Court will probably find the proposed statute of repose
invalid under several alternative provisions of the Alaska
Constitution including; equal protection, due process,
obligation of contracts, and right to a jury trial."
Representative Parnell noted that lawyers can differ.
Mr. Feldman stressed that class distinctions are not the
same under the statute of repose. He gave examples of
differentials of when citizens could bring their claim to
court.
Representative Brown emphasized that the statute of repose
provision would barr claims after six years. She gave
examples of cases where individuals would not be able to
seek compensation.
Representative Porter spoke in support of the statute of
repose provision. Discussion pursued regarding theoretical
cases involving the proposed statute of repose provision.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-118, Side 2)
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
4.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Navarre, Larson, MacLean
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault
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Representatives Foster, Grussendorf and Hoffman were absent
from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (4-4).
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 5 (copy
on file). She explained that amendment 5 would delete
personal injury and death from the statute of repose.
Mr. Ford stated that the amendment would remove references
to personal injury. The six year statute of repose
pertaining to property damage would remain.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 4.
Mr. Ford maintained that the amendment would reduce
constitutional issues.
Representatives Brown and MacLean spoke in support of the
amendment. Representative Porter spoke in opposition to the
amendment.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
5.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Brown, MacLean
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Foster, Grussendorf and Hoffman were absent
from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 6 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 6 would delete
manufactured products from the statute of repose. She
asserted that out-of-state manufacturers would be protected
at the expense of Alaskan citizens.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND spoke in support of amendment 6.
Representative Porter spoke in opposition to amendment 6.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
6.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Brown, MacLean
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Foster, Grussendorf and Hoffman were absent
from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
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Representative MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 7 (copy on file).
She explained that amendment 7 would delete "an intentional
or reckless disregard of specific" and insert "a failure to
follow applicable."
Mr. Ford explained that the amendment would broaden the
language of the bill.
Mr. Feldman emphasized that proving "intentional or reckless
disregard" is virtually impossible.
Representative Porter stressed the difference between simple
or gross negligence. He noted that it is difficult to
defend against actions which took place prior to six years.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
7.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Brown, Larson
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Representatives Foster, Grussendorf, MacLean and Hoffman
were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-4).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 8 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 8 would change statute
of repose provisions from 6 to 15 years. She noted that HB
160 contains a 15 year statute of repose provision.
Mr. Ford cautioned against adopting legislation with
different periods for statute of repose. Representative
Porter spoke in support of a six year statute of repose.
Representative Parnell MOVED to AMEND Amendment 8, delete
"15 years" and insert "10 years". Representative Brown
OBJECTED. Discussion pursued regarding periods for a
statute of repose. A roll call vote was taken on the
MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
OPPOSED: Brown, Grussendorf, Navarre
The MOTION PASSED (5-3).
HB 292 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
HOUSE BILL NO. 351
"An Act relating to the issuance of permits for the
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carrying of a concealed weapon."
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 5.
(copy on file). She explained that the amendment clarifies
that AS 18.65.775 "does not delegate to the department the
authority to regulate or restrict the issuing if permits
beyond those provisions contained in AS 18.65.700 -
18.65.790. Subjective or arbitrary actions or regulations
that encumber the issuing process... are prohibited."
Mr. Guaneli expressed concern with the word "subjective".
He emphasized that the Department of Public Safety needs the
ability to use its discretion.
Representative Parnell MOVED to AMEND Amendment 5, insert
"This section does not delegate to the department the
authority to regulate or restrict the issuing if permits
beyond those provisions contained in AS 18.65.700 -
18.65.790" and delete the remaining portion of amendment 5.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. There being NO
OBJECTION, amendment 5 was adopted as amended.
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 6 (copy
on file). She explained that amendment 6 would state that
fees set in regulations must be "based on the actual costs
incurred by the department for conducting criminal records
checks and for implementing and maintaining the concealed
handgun permit system."
Representative Brown spoke against amendment 6. Members
discussed the fee structure. Representative James indicated
the amendment's intent to allow the department to recover
costs.
Representative Martin MOVED to AMEND Amendment 6 by
inserting "based on the actual costs incurred by the
department." The rest of the amendment would be deleted.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. There being NO
OBJECTION, amendment 6 was adopted as amended.
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 7.
(copy on file). She explained that the amendment would
delete the option to allow a municipality or village to opt
out of the legislation.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-119, Side 1)
Representative James recommended that the amendment be
divided to allow section 18.65.780 to stand alone. This
section states that: "A municipality may not enact an
ordinance that conflicts with or imposes stricter standards
than the requirements of this chapter."
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Representative Larson MOVED to DIVIDE the Question, the
deletion of the option to allow municipalities and organized
villages to opt out would be amendment 7A. The insertion of
"A municipality may not enact an ordinance that conflicts
with or imposes stricter standards than the requirements of
this chapter" would be amendment 7B. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Discussion pursued regarding the ability of municipalities
to opt out of the provisions of the legislation or impose
other restrictions. Co-Chair Larson MOVED to ADOPT
AMENDMENT 7A. Representative Brown OBJECTED. A roll call
vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Therriault
OPPOSED: Brown, Grussendorf, Parnell, Larson, MacLean
Representatives Foster, Navarre and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 7B.
Representative Brown spoke against adoption of amendment 7B.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Therriault
OPPOSED: Brown, Grussendorf, Parnell, Larson, MacLean
Representatives Foster, Navarre and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
Representative James provided members with AMENDMENT 8.
(copy on file). She noted that amendment 8 would provide
that the definition of "handgun" is a pistol or revolver
with a barrel length of less than eight inches." The
definition of "miniature handgun" means a handgun with an
overall length of less than four inches and having a
cartridge capacity of fewer than three rounds."
Mr. Guaneli observed that the department would adopt
regulations based on the experience of gun experts in terms
of handguns generally available, in the absence of statutory
definitions.
Amendment 8 was WITHDRAWN.
Co-Chair MacLean provided members with AMENDMENT 9. (copy on
file). She explained that the amendment would change the
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opt out provision into a opt in provision. Co-Chair Larson
summarized that the amendment would result in enabling
legislation in affect in all areas of the state outside of
organized municipalities. Current law would remain in
organized municipalities unless the local governing
municipality, by ordinance, decided to opt in.
Mr. Guaneli suggested that unincorporated areas would remain
under current law unless the legislation specifically states
that the carrying of concealed weapons is allowed.
Representatives James, Martin and Parnell spoke in
opposition to amendment 9. Representative Brown spoke in
support of amendment 9.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 9. A roll call
vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, MacLean
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Representatives Foster, Navarre and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-6).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 10. She explained
that the amendment would delay the effective date. Mr.
Guaneli clarified that section 4 applies to the Department
of Public Safety's ability to implement regulations and
accept applications. Section 5 refers to the date that
concealed weapons could be carried.
Representative Hanley suggested that section 4 have an
immediate effective date.
Representative Brown MOVED to AMEND Amendment 10 to change
section 4 to an immediate effective date. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative James spoke against adoption of amendment 10.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault
Representatives Navarre, Foster and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
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Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 11.
(copy on file). She explained that amendment 11 would add
that a person applying for a concealed weapon permit show "a
demonstrated need for the permit that meets requirements set
by the department by regulation." She interpreted the
amendment to allow the issuance of a permit if a person felt
that their personal safety was being threatened.
Representative Hanley expressed concern that the amendment
was too broad. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
MacLean, Larson
Representatives Navarre, Foster and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-7).
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 12.
(copy on file). She explained that the amendment would
prevent a concealed weapon from being carried on a school
bus or a facility providing services to victims of domestic
violence or sexual assault.
Ms. Smith spoke in support of amendment 11. She noted that
the Counsel on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault has
regulations that define the minimum operating standards of
shelters and safe homes in the state.
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, LEGAL COUNSEL, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY
discussed the lack of current statutes regarding deadly
weapons on school buses. Discussion pursued in regards to
the definition of "school bus".
(Tape Change, HFC 94-119, Side 2)
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
12.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Hanley, Parnell, Therriault,
MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Martin
Representatives Navarre, Foster and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-1).
Mr. Luckhaupt noted that the definition of "school bus" was
established in Department of Education regulations which
16
describe equipment standards to transport children.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 13 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 13 would raise the age
of qualification from 21 to 25 years of age. Discussion
pursue in regards to the age of qualification.
Representative Martin MOVED to AMEND Amendment 13 to delete
"21" and insert "18" years of age. Representative Brown
OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Martin
OPPOSED: Brown, Hanley, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Navarre, MacLean, Foster and Hoffman were
absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-5).
A roll call vote was taken on the main MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Representatives Navarre, MacLean, Foster and Hoffman were
absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 14 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 14 would prohibit
individuals from carrying more than one handgun at a time
under a permit issued under AS 18.65.715. She noted that
law enforcement officers only carry one gun. A roll call
vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Representatives Navarre, MacLean, Foster and Hoffman were
absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 15 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 15 would require that
training cover when to use deadly force. Representative
James asserted that the legislation covers deadly force on
page 6, line 1.
17
Mr. Guaneli emphasized that there are instances when the law
will allow the use of deadly force, but that deadly force is
not necessary to control the situation.
Mr. Swackhammer differentiated between training and
knowledge of the use of deadly force.
Representative James maintained that the amendment would add
an extra expense to the applicant. Discussion pursued
regarding the need for training to teach the use of deadly
force.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
15.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 16 (copy on
file). She explained amendment 16 would require that a
refresher course be repeated every time the permit is
renewed. Permits are renewed every three years. A roll
call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Brown
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Navarre, Foster and Hoffman were absent from
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-5).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 17 (copy on
file). She explained that the amendment would require
mandatory liability insurance as a condition to obtaining a
concealed weapon permit. She emphasized the Department of
Public Safety and the Department of Law recommended that
liability insurance be required.
Representative Hanley noted that liability insurance is not
required for a handgun permit.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson
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Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-5).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 18 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 18 would protect
victims of domestic violence.
Ms. Smith stated that the amendment would provide that if
there is a restraining order in place when an application is
submitted the permit would be denied.
Members discussed the amendment's wording "is not now and
has not been the subject of an injunction".
Mr. Luckhaupt agreed that "and has not been" could be
deleted.
Representative Parnell MOVED to AMEND Amendment to delete
"and has not been." There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
There being NO OBJECTION, amendment 18 was adopted as
amended.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 19
(copy on file). She explained that amendment 19 would make
it a crime to possess a concealed handgun while under the
influence of alcohol or a controlled substance. She noted
that the amendment is supported by the Department of Public
Safety.
Representative Brown MOVED to AMEND Amendment 19 to reduce
the standard for blood alcohol to the legal level of .08
percent. Representative James asserted that current
statutes prevent the possession of guns while intoxicated.
Representative Brown pointed out that material provided by
the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Law
states that current law has no standards for intoxication
with guns. She maintained that under the legislation police
cannot direct those carrying concealed weapons to take a
breath test.
Mr. Guaneli observed that there is no standard for
"impairment". He discussed laws governing DWI laws. He
recommended that the standard for possession of guns be the
same as for drunk driving. He emphasized the difficulty to
prosecute for possession while impaired.
Mr. Luckhaupt advised that provisions under AS 28 cannot be
19
applied to possession of handguns without further
definitions.
Representative Hanley OBJECTED to AMENDMENT 19. A roll call
vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
AMENDMENT 20 and 21 were WITHDRAWN.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 22 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 22 would deny the
application of any individual adjudicated within 10 years
immediately preceding the application for a felony offense.
She noted that the amendment is supported by the Department
of Law and the Department of Public Safety.
Mr. Guaneli observed that there may be some difficulty
obtaining the information for individuals that have not
lived in the state for 10 years.
Co-Chair Larson noted that if the background check did not
discover record that the individual was adjudicated as a
delinquent of a felony offense the permit would have to be
issued.
Mr. Swackhammer indicated that the amendment would not
increase the department's fiscal note.
Representative Martin OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken
on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT 22.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Hanley, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
OPPOSED: Martin
Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-1).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 23 (copy on
file). She explained that the amendment would provide that
the list of permittee is a public record.
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Representatives Hanley and James objected to amendment 23.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-120, Side 1)
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt AMENDMENT
23.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 24 (copy on
file). She explained that amendment 24 would insert a new
paragraph which reads: "(8) a public transportation vehicle
including a bus, a train and a taxi cab" to the list of
places a concealed handgun cannot be carried. She noted
that the amendment is supported by the Department of Law and
the Department of Public Safety.
Representative James spoke in opposition to amendment 24.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
Larson
Co-Chair MacLean and Representatives Navarre, Foster and
Hoffman were absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-6).
HB 351 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 4:20 p.m.
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